VEST Her Podcast: Likeable Badass. Rethinking Power, Status, and How Women Lead

VEST Her Podcast: Likeable Badass

What if you didn’t have to choose between being respected and being liked? In this episode of the VEST Her Podcast, we’re joined by Alison Fragale, organizational psychologist, UNC professor, and author of Likeable Badass: How Women Get The Success They Deserve. In this conversation, Alison breaks down the difference between power and status, and how women can build both without burning out or selling out.

Moderated by VEST Member Autumn Knutson, CEO of Styled Wealth, the conversation goes deep into the practical side of leadership for women: how to be warm and in charge, how to negotiate effectively, and how to turn discomfort into growth.

“Power is control over valued resources. Status is the regard others choose to give you. And if you don’t know the difference, you might be playing the wrong game.”  

— Alison Fragale, Organizational Psychologist & Author of Likeable Badass

Power vs. Status

One of the most important distinctions Alison makes is between power and status.

• Power is objective, it's control over things people value: budgets, decisions, information.

• Status is social, it's how much people respect, trust, or defer to you.

Many women spend a lot of time earning status, being liked, being seen as capable, without realizing they’re not building power alongside it. Others unknowingly give away power to protect their status: softening their language, avoiding conflict, or staying quiet in the name of being “a team player.” But as Alison points out, you can be warm and in charge. You can be respected and relatable. And learning how to hold both is key.

Treat Status Like a Bank Account

Alison uses a brilliant metaphor: the status bank account. You make deposits through connection, trust, and early wins. And you spend that status when you challenge ideas, take bold action, or negotiate for yourself. Too many women, she says, hoard status, afraid to use it for fear of losing likability. But respect and influence only matter if you use them. The key is intentional deposits: investing in relationships, listening well, showing competence so when the time comes to make a withdrawal, you have the capital to do so.

Perfectionism Isn’t Professionalism

Another common trap women fall into is mistaking perfectionism for high standards. But perfectionism is often just fear in disguise, fear of judgment, failure, or being seen as “not enough.” Alison encourages a mindset shift of treating discomfort like post-workout soreness, a natural part of growth. Instead of aiming for flawless execution, aim for consistent reps. Practice showing up with confidence in low-risk settings. Test language. Get feedback. Refine. This is how real confidence is built not through waiting until you're 100% ready, but by getting comfortable being seen before you are.

How to Negotiate Without Apologizing

When it comes to negotiation, Alison offers tactical strategies that protect both the ask and the relationship:

• Present multiple equivalent offers to create flexibility and reduce defensiveness.

• Tie your ask to a shared goal, make it clear how the outcome benefits everyone.

• Signal care upfront, you can ask for more and still be collaborative. It’s not either-or.

We also dive into self-promotion, share practical ways to build influence and more.

If you’ve ever felt like you’re doing all the “right” things and still being overlooked, this episode is for you. It dismantles the false choice between being liked and being respected, and offers a smarter, research-backed way to lead with both.

Speaker Bios

Alison Fragale is an organizational psychologist, professor at the University of North Carolina Kenan-Flagler Business School, and bestselling author of Likeable Badass: How Women Get the Success They Deserve. Her academic research on status, power, negotiation, and influence have been published in her field’s top academic journals as well as national media outlets, including The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times. She is a sought-after keynote speaker who uses behavioral science to help individuals, especially women, excel. Prior to her academic career, Alison worked as a consultant for McKinsey and Company, Inc.

She holds a B.A. in Mathematics and Economics from Dartmouth College and a Ph.D. in Organizational Behavior from the Stanford University Graduate School of Business. Alison resides in Chicago with her husband and three children. Connect with Alison on LinkedIn

Autumn Knutson is a VEST Member and the CEO and lead financial planner at Styled Wealth, where she helps clients align their values and resources to make confident, informed financial decisions. With nearly a decade in financial planning and a background in education as both a teacher and counselor, Autumn brings a unique, values-driven approach to her work. She is a five-time Investopedia Top 100 Advisor and was named one of Financial Advisor’s 2023 “10 Young Advisors to Watch.” Connect with Autumn on LinkedIn

Note: In this episode, we mispronounced Knutson, Autumn's last name. The correct pronunciation includes the “K”, it’s K-nutson, not Nutson. We regret the error and appreciate your understanding.

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